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Ranking, Badges, Reactions : a discussion*
dtp56
✭
Hi, I was wondering if the ranking option is available to non paying members? I can't find it in my add-ons and would love some help with this thanks!
0
Comments
The three components of the Reputation system (Badges, Reactions and Ranks) are all limited to the hosted version of Vanilla.
Kasper Kronborg Isager (kasperisager) | Freelance Developer @Vanilla | Hit me up: Google Mail or Vanilla Mail | Find me on GitHub
The good news is that the Ranking plugin is next in line on my list, after the Badges one.
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using costume page i developed a small page to rank everything in forum http://geek.lk/supergeeks
but it is not a plugin. simple script
well, post your code Chanux and it can probably be turned into a plugin that is free or sponsored -
only way to build on the forum and plugins is for people like you to post their changes if they are valuable and then they can be built upon.
The main problem with the Premium plugin route from the view of a developer - if the plugin route becomes a locked up premium plugin - non-sponsored affair and you support it by purchase - you are essentially throwing away the knowledgebase to create free or sponsored plugins. Because that is what every plugin developer has done - whether they want to admit it or not - looked at other plugins and gleaned ideas from the add-ons repository.
As an example (pay-to-view for research purposes)
http://vanillaforums.org/discussion/comment/172964/#Comment_172964
on the other hand - if one doesn't help to sponsor plugins and/or make token contributions - you essentially force some developers to the premium plugin route. - so you make your own bed so to speak, and every developer decides for themselves which business model is best for them.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
this makes me so happy businessdad. Thank you.
That's absolutely true. You expressed perfectly something that should not happen, i.e. learning by copying from someone else's work, especially when "someone" means "anyone". That's by far the worst way to learn something, as it relies entirely on guessing and "thinking that you got it", while it's not always true. Besides, many free plugins have been abandoned or are in dire need of refactoring, yet there is no other way of figuring out (another expression that I loathe) what to do.
I discarded countless frameworks and applications because of their lack of documentation and the general "figure out by copying from someone else" attitude of their community (perfect example of this, the horrible OpenCart). Having some examples can be useful, but proper documentation and tutorials would be far more important.
About the issue that Premium Plugins waste the knowledge, that is simply not true. Knowledge is given back to the community by participating to it. Again, nobody should have to "learn by copying".
Regarding the usual "battle" of sponsoring vs premium, many of us don't develop solutions as a hobby, we do it as a business. I'm not looking to get experience, I'm not looking to get myself badges or ranks, I don't have Software Development as a hobby. If I had to rely on sponsorship or donations, I would have abandoned Vanilla months ago, as I can dedicate my time to far more profitable activities.
Here's how I see it:
Premium Contributions
They are a business. When I treat as a business, I do my best because I aim to have satisfied Customers and earn every penny they give me. Also, Clients deserve excellent customer support, thus is in my interest to produce the best code possible, as I won't be paid for fixing issues.
Voluntary contributions
When I do something as a voluntary contribution, I aim to help the Community. In this case, I do my best because I want to help others, and their thanks is all I might expect.
A perfect example of this are the Cron Jobs and Logger plugins, which are, in my opinion, vital to maintain a busy forum, and costed me many hours of work.
In short, I either feel that it's worth spending my own time on something, or I don't. If I do, I just work on it, no money required. If I don't, then I expect that someone pays for all my time. In both cases, I have a valid reason to do my best.
Also, the question of Support hasn't been considered. I've read about Users complaining about the level of Support they receive on the forum, and many of the replies were similar to "you got it for free, you can't expect much". Wrong answer. Whether one donates his products, or sells them, he should be available to provide support on the same terms.
I know some Developers who prefer to give away their products for free and charge for support, and I'm against such absurd idea, as it motivates people to create bad products. The poorer the products are, the more support they will require, the more hours will be billed. So why should anyone spending hours in perfecting them? A faulty business model, but a business model nevertheless.
Finally, a direct reply to a nonsensical statement:
I don't remember having the duty of publishing everything I make, in real time, nor the one of providing free consultancy, training and analysis to any 3rd party who asks for it. I strongly believe I'm far from a leecher, and I'm perfectly entitled to choose how to manage my own projects.
If I get it right, your main complaint seems that you don't find it worth paying for something you would "just" use to learn. Actually, every company I worked with charges three to four times their standard hourly rate when they deliver Software Development training, and that makes perfect sense. The companies spent time learning some techniques, had to overcome difficulties. Now they give the results of their efforts to someone else, who will then be able to use them for their purposes. In short, they are training competitors, should they do it cheap, or free of charge?
I start getting the impression of dealing with a "Paladin of Free Software", thinking that everyone must support each other as a due act of good will. You are free to work "gratis et amore Dei", if you wish, but that doesn't necessarily make your approach better than others'. So, please stop describing other people's approach as the "bad scenario" in an attempt to convince Users into becoming sponsors or giving donation.
I really hope this topic won't come up again, it's really getting irritating.
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I wasn't sure whether to click awesome or insightful for your discussion. Good discourse.
I think its a worthy discussion. I really don't mean to irritate you, just wanted some discourse on the pluses and minuses. I think you write good plugins. I was just pointing out why the model of premium plugins and their support can be deleterious to the community as a whole. I don't think anything I post on the board is going to influence anyone - some will pay, some won't.
"gleaning ideas" should not be "refactored into the perception" that is equated with "copying". A slippery slope indeed.
this was my point - if on the other hand you did get an influx of contributions - things might have been different in your business model.
point being mcu_hq asked if you were providing a sponsored plugin because of his desire to see the the implementation.
thus, he will not see the implementation - unless he pays to view it.
Vanilla is free, I think its a pretty good product. Do you concur?
you tend to equate free and cheap with "poor quality". this may or may not be the case. it is not an inverse ratio. In my life, I've seen people charging high rates for inferior products as well as products with no value at all.
As an analogy (I know you like them
. ).
In the U.S. - there is public radio - it is free and it relies on contributions. there is also "a premium radio model" where users have to pay to listen to radio stations. There is also "standard radio" with advertising paying the bill.
I much prefer public radio - it is free, advertisement free, has excellent quality, in my opinion better than the "premium radio" or the advertisement-supported radio. A few times a year the public radio broadcasts pledge drives to keep it on the air.
from the web - Paladin
Paladins can withstand terrible blows in the thickest battles while healing their wounded allies and resurrecting the slain.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
It won't be. If anything, charging a fee forces people to be more professional, as there's a clear sale contract between parties. The donation model will be far more deleterious, as it's based on doing something based on an unknown revenue. As soon as something more interesting pops out, or donations dry up, the project risks to be abandoned (just check how many plugins are in alpha, beta or 0.1 version).
If you still don't believe my model could work, just have a look at how many other communities have a marketplace, and see if they are suffering because of it. I repeat what I wrote months ago: on some products' communities you even have to pay for bug fixes, when they are contributed by 3rd parties. They are usually just $10, but you have to pay. Whether you like it or not, their approach works and it makes sense.
Why should Users pay for bug fixes? Because the product itself has its own release schedule and Users may need the fix before the next release. Just opening the file editor and looking for the issue would cost them much more than $10, hence they pay the person a small fee for having saved them time and headaches. If the fix doesn't work, they get a refund, and the Developer who published risks getting a bad feedback. Either way, the Client has little to lose, and the Developer must make sure he does his best, which increases the overall quality of the code produced.
thus, he will not see the implementation - unless he pays to view it.
And what's so weird with it? Most of my life I've been unable to see the implementation of anything, since I worked mainly with compiled languages, and the source code always came with a hefty price tag.
Perhaps you missed what I wrote about learning and training, let me repeat it: they are not necessarily cheap, nor they have to be free. Someone would pay for the code to use it, someone else to learn from it. In both cases, it provided them what they were looking for, and there's nothing wrong with it.
If someone had contracted me to write an analysis for the Badges plugin (i.e. "how to approach it", which was @mcu_hq's question), it would have costed them over $1000 in consultancy fees. The plugin will cost a fraction of it, therefore it's still excellent value.
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